Calgary SID/route filing question

Ken Greenwood

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Calgary SID/route filing question
« on: July 14, 2020, 11:03:52 AM »
hithere - have been flying several routes in/out of CYYC lately in the majestic q400 and have noticed something that is making me scratch my head...

looking at FlightAware - WEN files several routes via IPSIT (specifically the YQU and YXJ flights) - IPSIT fix is depicted on both the BANFF and STAMPEDE departures which are 'jet only'

I was corrected recently, rightfully so, for filing a 'jet' fix for a 'non-jet' departure  --  however, if I utilize the 'realworld' route from flightaware it is indeed filing a jet fix for a non-jet departure

does YYC terminal treat q400s as jets or am I just missing something

cheers - Ken

Mark Walsh

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Re: Calgary SID/route filing question
« Reply #1 on: July 14, 2020, 12:36:16 PM »
hithere - have been flying several routes in/out of CYYC lately in the majestic q400 and have noticed something that is making me scratch my head...

looking at FlightAware - WEN files several routes via IPSIT (specifically the YQU and YXJ flights) - IPSIT fix is depicted on both the BANFF and STAMPEDE departures which are 'jet only'

I was corrected recently, rightfully so, for filing a 'jet' fix for a 'non-jet' departure  --  however, if I utilize the 'realworld' route from flightaware it is indeed filing a jet fix for a non-jet departure

does YYC terminal treat q400s as jets or am I just missing something

cheers - Ken

Air Traffic so quiet lately, maybe real world not being concerned.  Who knows...

Josh Agins

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Re: Calgary SID/route filing question
« Reply #2 on: July 14, 2020, 05:47:00 PM »
YYC terminal treats Q400 as turboprops and not jets. However this route should not be a problem since it's most direct to that area above FL180.

On the SID in the narrative portion of the Rodeo2 departure, which is what we assign to turboprops in the normal runway configuration, says "Climb to maintain 7000 for vectors to assigned route or depicted fix".

Since we don't see as much traffic as some FIRs do and can easily maintain the separation if needed. Also in the real world pre-pandemic I believe this route was flown daily by WEN.

Thank you for the feedback and I'll relay this to our guys as a reminder.
Josh Agins
CZEG Chief Instructor

Brett Zubot

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Re: Calgary SID/route filing question
« Reply #3 on: December 04, 2020, 02:01:54 PM »
does YYC terminal treat q400s as jets or am I just missing something

cheers - Ken

For descents, Encore gets to file the Jet STARs as they prefer the crossing restrictions, something they've allowed an exception for their fuel efficiency. I think they are allowed this going into VR as well. As for the AGMAK vs IPSIT discussion, I think it was an MEA thing, but I'll look into it and get you an answer Sunday when I go back into work. All I know is they got an exception to file IPSIT vs AGMAK T694 for some reason. So we assign the Rodeo if we're on the parallels, and YYC if we're sideways.

Brett

Tony Koch

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Re: Calgary SID/route filing question
« Reply #4 on: December 07, 2020, 12:13:33 PM »
My understanding is that use of the jet STARS was negotiated by Jazz and Encore with Nav Canada for the Q400D because its performance does not impede the jets.

Matheson Shenher

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Re: Calgary SID/route filing question
« Reply #5 on: December 14, 2020, 12:04:32 AM »
My understanding is that use of the jet STARS was negotiated by Jazz and Encore with Nav Canada for the Q400D because its performance does not impede the jets.

Their performance does in fact impede trailing jet traffic. They can climb quickly, but cannot carry a high enough ground speed while they do this. This is why Dash 8's around the world are routinely given 10-20 degree turns after departure.
Cheers,

C3

Cody Newman

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Re: Calgary SID/route filing question
« Reply #6 on: December 14, 2020, 12:41:32 PM »
Tony and I were both controlling when we had a group of real world pilots of the Q400 fly into Calgary.   
They said their companies had negotiated having the ability to fly into Calgary on Jet arrivals because they can descend and maintain similar speeds/restrictions to jets for the arrival. 

Departures are still done on non Jet procedures for obvious reasons.